I think we all pretty much know that Webmail and the holding company Interface IT are genuine spammers much the same as Ananzi and Braby’s. I got this email from a reader that got scammed by Webmail to send out 100 000 emails that would generate a 30% – 40% response rate. This “direct mail” package costs her R30 000. Read the email below and please let me know what you think!
Hi,
I have a small company and was approached by Webmail’s Sales Director (Gregg van Notten) who sold me on a Direct Mail package. 100,000 of my target market (who have ’signed’ up for such things – NOT!!) and I would have a 30-40% response rate. I stressed that I wouldn’t spam anybody and he assured me that there was no spamming. I was told to gear up for a massive response and ordered over R200k worth of product to gear up for this overwhelming campaign.
I couldn’t get the Sales Director to respond to my calls and finally go thoroughly hostile when one of the ‘Campaign Managers’ finally contacted me. I told them I wasn’t paying the remaining fee as their service was pathetic and their demographics amateur and irrelevant. They threatened to take me to court.
They then sent out the first 50,000 emails. Well 2203 opened the mails and I got a whopping 69 responses. This is when I went truly ballistic. I told them that if somebody “signs” up for emails they generally open them and that if 4.6% open them then it’s because they’re being spammed. I also targeted LSM 8+ and not be utterly ignorant, I’m fairly sure a lovely lady in a very (VERY!!!) rural town in the bundu of the Transkei cannot qualify. I then had a conversation with the Campaign Manager who was getting seriously aggravated with me and I told her to escalate my problem to somebody senior. She said she would and emailed this assurance to me. Well that was Tuesday last week.
I have now sent a truly snotty email informing them that I have contacted the Direct Marketing Association and will report them to the DTI. They’ll pick up this gem tomorrow.
This campaign has cost me a small fortune and the response has been pathetic beyond words. Their website states that they guarantee results and I’m going to hold them to this.
At Interface we aim to push the boundaries of conventional online and now mobile business and one of the first marketing companies in S.A. by offering our advertisers GUARANTEES. We have tailored some great cost effective packages that will bring guaranteed traffic to our advertisers websites. We are able to make these guarantees due to the relationship we have established with the likes of Google, Yahoo and MSN as well as Webmail ” South Africa’s leading FREE email service”.
Secondly, they state in their privacy statement that they do not sell their clients details and that they will communicate with the advertiser. This is false. All the people who responded to my mail have had their details displayed for my spamming pleasure. Email and phone number. They have lied to their clients and this has to be a breach of contract.
Junk MailWe know that junk mail is invasive and annoying. We strive to protect you from Spam in the following ways:
- We will never sell your address
- We will constantly monitor and protect your inbox from unwanted mail.
- Should advertisers wish to communicate directly, we will do so on their behalf once we are certain that your interest profile matches the deal and that it offers true value.
To protect yourself, we suggest that you give out your address with care, particularly to other websites
This company is unethical and borders on fraudulent and I refuse to leave it. I want my money back and I want some sort of investigation.
Hello? We are able to make these guarantees due to the relationship we have established with the likes of Google, Yahoo and MSN. This sentence right here is a huge red flag – total and utter rubbish.
Check out the stats from the first half of the campaign (50 000 emails) – I love how their “rate” percentage is based on the clicks sent from the amount of emails that were opened, instead of quoting the “rate” as a percentage of the total amount of emails sent. If they quoted it properly you would have an open rate of 5.1% and an actual click through rate of 0.8%. Pure spammy goodness.
In these times, with small businesses really struggling, they will fall for scams like this that “guarantee” results and I’m hoping that some of you that are reading this, stay far, far away from Webmail, Interface I.T. and all their associated companies.
51 Comments
8:29 am
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Theres a few pointers to the supplier being a tad irresponsible with the facts.
1. The guarantees
2. The statement that they have a special relationship with Google.
Hell Google likes me too but I don’t claim special relationships, Is Matt my buddy because I get good results? I don’t think so.
8:32 am
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I use to get regular phone calls and emails from Webmail staff trying to sell us their email marketing service. I’m so glad I didnt waste my time and money with this company. [Twitter: @ginos]
8:51 am
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Heh, nice interpretation of a click-through rate. I’m with Gino on this one – I just don’t take or return their calls.
8:59 am
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I’m really glad this has come out into the open. I have been in a similar situation:
About two years ago I was away during which time my naive partner was approached by Webmail to take out the exact same solution as the lady above. They structured the package at a rate of about R2000 a month and split the mail bombs over a period totaling about R32000.
When I returned to work I immediately called them up asking for a refund and stated that we no longer wanted to go ahead with the package as my partner, who was not as technically inclined as I was, had been sold on false premise.
We were a distributor of high end audio equipment, not targeting the man in the street, let alone people who use a local based free email system – it was obvious we would get NO benefit.
Webmail refused to refund us and threatened legal action – so we payed and to date have not made use of our email campaign.
I have contacted them over 20 times and have been evaded every single time – I just want to negotiate some kind of resolution even if we only get half our money back.
A few weeks ago they contacted a client of mine who I offer advice – he called me in to the meeting with Webmail. When they heard I would be there – they never even pitched!
I’m ready to kill!!!
9:12 am
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webmail eish
we burnt our fingers in the early 2000’s with their crappy ecom solution.
I personally know half a dozen other peeps who have also been cheated by Webmail & EasyInfo (their so called directory service)
At one stage, about a year or two ago. Nearly ever week a sales rep from there would call to ’setup a meeting’.
lol had some fun cancelling, telling staff to tell them i no longer work here, webwho? male?, ask for google analytics etc etc
Longstory short – salesrep does not give a crap about you. they want the sale for their commission. After that move onto someone else while WEbmails legal team uses the fine print and contracts to suck money out of you.
There is hope though, few guys did fight fire with fire and got their contract/debit orders cancelled but at what expense? hours apon hours wasted on calls, legal fees etc etc.
Webmail – Easy info – AVOID!!!
9:34 am
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I get a call from them every few weeks & since I’ve done my online marketing research I’ve never considered their service to be something that we needed.
Before, when I got the call, I’d simply turn them down. Now I think I may just drop an F-bomb on their sales manager.
Quite simply, this kind of scamming needs to be stopped & regulations need to be put in place. Besides using the DMA to blacklist Webmail.
Thanks for posting this Jason & I hope you’ll continue to raise awareness about this unethical practise.
10:36 am
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I remember being in a meeting with one of their sales rips in 2003, I laughed at them then. How have they survived all these years?
10:55 am
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I’m concerned that this article represents poor journalism, Jason. You are lambasting and stirring up a witch-hunt against a company that has clearly not been asked to provide a written response based on an email that doesn’t seem to be attributed to anyone, despite it mentioning specific individuals within the business by name.
I’m not defending these guys — they may very well be the scum of the earth. I’m just questioning whether they’re getting fair trial here. Are you even being hard ENOUGH on them? If what is being claimed here is true, there is an opportunity to genuinely stamp these guys out of the market. But opening this up to an emotional mudslinging match is making it too easy to ignore.
I urge you to find a way to move this debate into a realm in which some real results can be gained.
11:31 am
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@Jarred
Very good point, but I think Jason has the right to express his opinion on this blog as an individual, not as an investigative journalist. Certainly this should be brought into the open & there should be a ‘right of reponse’ but I don’t think Jason has to ‘champion’ the cause either (unless he wants to).
[ Perhaps I'm concerned that bloggers will need to become 'investigative journalists' & subscribe to an 'ethics code' before posting a (heresay) story like this ... and then stop telling us about potential scams or poor business practise because they just couldn't be bothered. Then again, a blog is a powerful tool that can be used like a hammer ... ]
“I urge you to find a way to move this debate into a realm in which some real results can be gained.”
Isn’t this the first step towards doing that?
12:09 pm
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I see quite a number of you have had some not so positive run-ins with Webmail and their sneaky tactics. I’m glad I did publish this post!
@Jarred – I’m a blogger – not a journalist. I don’t need to quote proper sources, nor do I need to get their point of view. I’m also not the industry watchdog and I doubt anything that I would do would be able to “stamp” them out of the market. :) I just want people to be aware of their shady sales tactics, much the same that if a possible client came to you and asked advice on “should they run a campaign with Webmail”, you would laugh and easily convince them to rather go with your company.
Oh, the lady that wrote the email, is Karen Kruger.
12:43 pm
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I was contacted by Webmail back in 2006 when I started my online business and they came round for a meeting – they did old school hard sell tactics with me and at one point the senior sales manager was so rude and patronising to me, because I refused to sign up THERE AND THEN to the crap they were selling, in the end I asked them in a nice way to basically f*ck right off out of my office and I am SO glad I did! I have also heard some other very bad reports at networking events with other small business owners – many having lost money to them!
To top it all off, i still received regular sales calls from them a few months later! After repeatedly telling them I am not interested and to STOP contacting me. They just don’t understand the meaning of NO!
They are a horrible company and I pity anyone who falls for their sh*t!
4:48 pm
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I’m the one who sent the info to Jason. I have been waiting for a reply from Webmail since Tuesday 7 July. I finally got a reply today and this is what it states: “Webmail has fulfilled their part of the contract and cancelling the contract is not an option, as it is stated on all our contracts that Webmail has a non-cancellation policy. We also cannot accept any oral agreements, as per our contract.”. So much for the Consumer Protection Bill and Common Law which both state that a verbal contract is binding. Bring it on!!
9:43 am
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If the webmail guys really do use hard sell tactics then they deserve to be exposed for this alone.
I’m glad that Jason has raised this issue, and would like to add my 2c worth: what kind of people sign up for the Webmail service in the first place? Certainly the Webmail site offers no information to prospective advertisers, so one has to guess.
10:46 am
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More Webmail “goodness” – http://webmailsucks.blat.co.za/2009/07/15/webmail-should-be-investigated/
11:00 am
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Check out these Customer Reviews:
http://internet-service-providers.realreviews.co.za/webmail-internet/
10:40 am
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Decent post Jason, people need to be aware of companies like these money sucking clowns… Webmail… EasyInfo!
One of our users listed a classified with a link directly to Mytrade on EasyInfo and out of the blue we received a call from EasyInfo, stating in a very rude manner that we may not make postings on their site. After viewing the post for myself, I tried to explain to the idiot manager that this was one of our users, but it seemed his thick scull filled with only a peanut of a brain could not grasp the concept!
As you know Jason, we’ve launched a Free Webmail service with signup to http://www.mytrade.co.za that we plan on setting up as an independant website, just to piss webmail off aswell! Will keep you up to date.
Keep us posted, really hope your reader gets their money back!
11:43 am
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Here’s a fun thing to try: go to easyinfo and search for webmail.
Then click on the “Rate” link on the right and give them a “1 star. – I would not recommend.”
I also told them the category was wrong, and suggested “Spammer” as a new category.
9:18 am
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These chaps almost had me too. Thank goodness I didn’t take them seriously. They were not prepared to discuss their pricing structure telephonically. I could’ve save them the trip to come bother me :)
5:24 pm
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Hi Guys,
You realise that webmail is an “OPA” Online Publishers Association member, surely a complaint could be lodged with them.
Just a thought.
Cheers,
jon.
8:19 pm
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Sent complaints to OPA and every other consumer organisation in the country. OPA was the only one who responded to say they’d escalated my complaint. Not one of the others even bothered to get back to me despite subsequent follow-ups. I then discovered that Webmail sits on the OPA Board. Nothing like poachers becoming game-keepers etc
11:29 am
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I just had a webmail representative come to see me. The reason being that every month i get calls from Webmail and after having threatened legal action for harrassment low and behold they phoned again. So I decided to waste their time and set up a meeting to tell thIm how I DO NOT want to use their services and how crap they actually are.
I do not understand how a company of their supposed “stature” cannot have a do not call list or CRM functionality. Its like getting an enewsletter with no option to unsubscribe. Their telephonic sales technique is even worse – they call me and tell me how they want to advertise my business but then ask me if i have a website! The least they could do is google the company name before calling me. I then got another call back to ask if i had the authority to sign a contract. Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch! Also it shows how they couldnt care less about you as a customer you are just another R in their pocket.
The person who came to see me was not even the lady who called me and i had no idea it wouldnt be her!
I have said that should webmail call me again I will take legal action against them and was told to take it up with Alan Lipschitz (owner as far as i know) and Jeff Ellis (CEO). In the meantime does nayone know anything else I can do to stop this appalling company?
1:30 pm
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Hi,
We have on record over 50 emails between the parties. The dispute revolves around the terms of use (where as a condition of use we do send direct mailers) and clients response issue. The 50 emails show we took every possible step to try and satisfy client. The director involved vehemently denies guaranteeing any form of response and asserts that the items pre-purchased were explained by the client to be for a faire and is now being blamed on us. The client is making use of various platforms to attack us which questions we feel a level on independence expected in journalistic roles.
We have really attempted to satisfy and assist – 6 staff members have had dealings with client on various levels including 2 managers and 2 directors. It seems that the client sees this as some personal vendetta against the person she signed the contract with and her comments to us have been no less vitriolic.
We have a few thousand clients and unfortunately despite considerable efforts there are some who have not been satisfied while others indeed have. We do hold companies to contracts that are signed as do other organizations such as banks, cell phone companies etc . We do try, as we have in this instance and can refer on others attempt to resolve issues that do arise.
In terms of complaints with regards to calls received from our telesales departments , we apologise and understand this can become frustrating. It is our method of revenue generation and is in a way like complaining one is seeing another cell phone add – just because it’s more direct its more invasive. We do try and manage requests received not to call a particular company. We spent R200 000 in the past on call centre software to manage and deal with this and related call centre issues but this proved a waste of money after a 8 month back and forth process.
Please understand we competing with global free email platforms who have millions of $ to spend and losses are not an issue. We are proud that there can be a South African company employing 200 plus people which can deliver a service to over 500 000 users and while we accept that some clients will criticise our selling, we feel we should also be acknowledged for being able to provide a service and compete against global giants and thus be considered on that basis as well.
We appreciate those that have expressed our right of reply where we feel blogs are best considered as dialogues and not venting platforms. We respect the right of each blog owner to make the choice and obviously be mindful of any controversy being the starting point for the lifeblood of conventional media that things like blogs hopefully overcome on many levels.
Kind Regards,
THE WEBMAIL TEAM
1:52 pm
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Once again I cannot believe that webmail cannot implement a system (it must have developers!?) that will allow their telesales people to type in a number on their database and it will show then whether or not they can contact this person. I am positive that building such functionality into this system would not cost hundreds of thousands of rands!
“It is our method of revenue generation and is in a way like complaining one is seeing another cell phone add – just because it’s more direct its more invasive.”
Its nothing like that as if i no longer wish to see a tv advert i can guarantee it by not switching on my television. As well as this when i turn on my TV i am tacitly accepting that i will be marketed to. Webmail on the other hand is an unwelcome intrusion which i neither requested nor tacitly accepted.
Come on – this is your only way of generating revenue? ever heard of SEO? Social Media? What about word of mouth? Well if you spam your database and exisiting customers, irritate potential customers with cold calling harrassment obviously word of mouth would not work to your advantage.
Maybe if you are receiving so many complaints that it warrants you to respond the issue is with your selling techniques. Plenty of other companies succeed in generating revenue without cold calling. If your service was great and you had a customer centric approach people would hear about it and use you for that.
Webmail has not taken any action over the countless times i have asked for them to stop calling me, Webmail STOP calling me. The next time i am contacted by you i will take legal action in a harrassment charge.
12:01 am
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The cannot even implement a “Do Not Call” system? I find this difficult to believe.
I have also re-read the last paragraph several times and I still don’t know what they mean.
The webmail response it the typical BS one expects from marketers who try to duck and dive. They have revealed their true colours for all to see.
10:09 am
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Hi Robyn,
Please post your company name and contact number so that I can forward these details to our telesales department to ensure that you are not called.
Kind Regards,
THE WEBMAIL TEAM
10:37 am
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Are these guys for real? Why don’t THEY post THEIR contact details instead of asking Robyn to post hers?
They just don’t get it! Idiots.
10:47 am
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Thanks Donn i agree!
Webmail please post your contact details and a contact person so that i can email you directly. You can then respond to say you have received it and acknowledge that I do not wish to be contacted by Webmail again. This email will serve as proof that you have agreed to this.
11:49 am
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I worked as a telesales agent for Webmail. It was my worst work experience ever. You are made to call on businesses that may or may not have been called without questioning if they were in fact called before. There isnt even a log system to reduce calls made to companies that have been called more than once. You have to bring your own leads (magazines/newspapers/business cards/phone numbers from billboards etc) and call from those. BUT WORST OF ALL… they are the biggest bunch of racist pigs to ever walk this earth, with the exception of Mr Jeff Ellis(decent and kind). They speak abruptly with no respect and even use derogitory terms when speaking directly to you (if you werent white). If u made a big sale u were a favourite, if u didnt u were treated worse than shit. I feel so sorry for those who are still there and pitching their mouths off for a small packet of peanuts at the end of the month.
12:28 pm
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kinda late.. nonetheless..
I think.. no, I know.. no, I believe.. unwaveringly too.. that Webmail is a sad case. I had a Sales Rip (u crack me Rafiki) in my office a while back and my first words to him was that I was not going to sign anything today and I will need at least 3 case studies on whatever he’s offering before I do. He started fumbling in word and deed. Instead of selling me he started complimenting me on how knowledgeable I am about the internet (he clearly had no clue)
However, let us not put all this on Webmail. Nobody walks blindly into a contract based on promises with no documented or other tangible form of substance that the company is able to perform as per their pitch.
Secondly, Webmail is a company that offers free web-based email. I don’t care how many million subscribers you have, if their buyer personas don’t match my target demographics they can go sh*t a brick. I know very few people that don’t have a legitimate office email address.
I think the very first question that should’ve popped up was: “What buyer personas, demographics, psychographics or econographics would you find or hope to find on a free web-based email service like Webmail?” (Gmail of course being the exception here) And therein would’ve lied the answer to the question: “Do I, or do I not?”
So yes, I believe Webmail sales rips (kannie ophou laggie) should not run around making promises they can’t back up. But in the same breath if you know the IDC will give you R10 million if you have a well researched, well-constructed, well presented business plan.. then man – will you research your heart out..
Webmail. Same thing. Ovias
12:50 pm
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Wow! Ok – im starting to wonder if that is actually Webmail’s response and if so -???????????? A company should at least be accountable and willing to suffer the consequences of their poor service/ sales techniques.
Is there a way to verify that this is actually Webmail replying?
10:10 am
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Our company has been a victim of similar 1000 hits false promise with Webmail. Also many many emails between them and us that are just not resolved to our satisfaction. Besides very poor stats results and lies from them, we have also been thretened with legal action. Our ad campaign is paid via monthly debit order, which goes off our account, yet there accounts department somehow does not pick this up. Yet, they were the ones to send us the form to complete and return. The last mail I received from them (which I replied to) was to inform me that the campaign was stopped. I have a written letter from them, which I received after first couple of complaints, that very clearly states, GUARANTEED 1000 clicks. We will continue to honor the debit order, as we are contractually bound untill Feb 2010, and after that we are taking legal action against them for not commiting to their written guarantee.
5:35 pm
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I see the Webmail teams last comment has been deleted – im still wondering if it was them that posted that? Jason can you shed some light?
2:19 pm
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Hi Robyn, the last comment from the Webmail team was not a legitimate comment. That’s the reason I deleted it.
This comment however is from Webmail: http://www.jasonbagley.com/2009/07/13/webmail-interface-it-scammers/#comment-47203
2:27 pm
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Thanks for the response Jason. I am hoping they will post their details so I can email them to stop contacting me. Great blog btw!
12:48 pm
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So i hope the webmail team reads this comment as anothr wbmail agent contacted our office today. Needless to say i will be taking legal action now. Well done Webmail.
3:20 pm
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Hi – I cannot believe that people like Jeff Ellis and Alan Lipschitz of Webmail have any integirty, honor or dignity…. From my experiences it Seems like thay are like GREEDERS and predators – I have begged to have my numbers blocked from their time wasters – but still am receiving thier unwanted interruptions.
Maybe we should get Carte Blanche onto them –
Jeff Ellis and Alan Lipschitz .. if you have ANYU integrity or dignity…. PLEASE get my numbers removed from your predatory sales rats!.
Is money so important that you lose your soul?
http://www.lifemasters.co.za
tony dovale
083-447-6300
3:24 pm
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I’ve tried to get the press onto them. I’ve contacted Carte Blanche, Noseweek and every consumer reporter I could find. Didn’t get a single reponse from anybody. If more letters come in then maybe these consumer advocats/investigative programs will do something. One small voice doesn’t seem to make a damn difference
3:31 pm
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Webmail contacts…
A Lipschitz
27 11 628-9700
alan@iface.co.za
9:41 am
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I have a idea. We all know bandwidth is pricey in africa. So lets all create a lot of email accounts at webmail and subscribe to 1000’s of newsletters.
Webmail will see a considerable increase in bandwidth usage eating into their ill gained profits.
We dont have to use the account just reclaim a little of what we have lost. Anybody game?
8:34 am
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We were scammed by WebMail back in 2002. They were due four payments of R1026 but took an extra payment, didn’t run the banners promised, produced demonstrably fraudulent statistics of the adverts run, and no results. When asked to refund the extra payment, their head of Accounts, Natalie Nel, just became abusive. The Partners did not respond to repeated requests to fix. I laid charges of fraud, theft, and crimen injuria with SAPS, Sandton CAS 477/06/2002. Police claimed it was a “civil matter”.
Webmail still phone us regularly, so I make an appointment for them. They actually pitch up for maybe one in three. I then give the rep my SAPS statement to read, and tell them I don’t deal with criminals.
However I see from the Star’s Consumer Watch column of yesterday, page 7 (“Find others who’ve been ripped off and lay charge with cops” by Wendy Knowler – consumer@knowler.co.za) that if a group of us get together and all lay charges at the same Police Station, SAPS will then follow up. Let’s do it!
9:52 am
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I’ve worked for them too. Not one of the directors can be trusted of what they are saying!! The are to cheap!!! to implement a crm solution.
10:02 am
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Hi Guys,
Any Advice? a few years ago I worked for a company and we signed on with Webmail, one of their advertising contract for about R30 000. Stupid emough I signed the contract as I was told to do as none of the directors were available at the time. A few months after the company closed down and we never got to use the contract. Now webmail want to take me personally to court and ITC.
Any advice on how to prevent this?
2:11 pm
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I assume the company paid part of the contract. In that case tell them that you will use the amount paid to send a mail to all their subscribers explaining about the law suit. That should make them change their mind.
Also, if you have received any legal papers from them, scan them to a PDF and send the information to Noseweek, and publish it on your blog. If you don’t have one I’ll put it on mine unless Jason wants to do so first.
Also, post a complaint on HelloPeter.com and getclosure.co.za
The more publicity it gets, the less likely they will proceed.
10:20 pm
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I have a small upstart company, and unfortunately fell for WM sales. I have not recieved one response from my add campaign that is running for allmost a year now, due to cashflow problems, partly due to adverts with webmail not working :) i have run behind with payments. If you think their sales tacticts is bad wait till you have to deal with the lady at their debt collection , my staff and i have been verbally attacked and abused that you can not believe.
1:27 am
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Sadly I’m also one of those that fell for their hard sales tactics. In 2006 they used to call me just about every week untill I agreed to a meeting, within 30 mins their rip artist had me sign their contract., and left with a cheque dep for R2000 in the pocket.
Fortunately I never signed a debit order or signed off their proposed banner. In other words I never made use of their service at all, as I was still in the process of getting my website ready. Then after the first month they started pestering me for money (even though no service was rendered) and pissed me off to such an extent that I decided I will have nothing to do with them. I also realised, albeit late, that all their statistics and clicks are just sales talk and they could give me NO evidence from other sources than themselves to back these.
Even after I made it clear to them I consider our contract null and void their Sales Dept still called me to sign up, and quite a few times ! The number of calls from themselves and so called debt collectors have long ago passed harassment level. Take me to court if you like, if you don’t have the guts to do so STOP HARASSING ME.
Webmail was just bad news to me, and continue to be so. They must be real hard up for money to carry on like this. Beware of Webmail.
5:44 am
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We were contacted by a sales rep, Derek Macik, from Webmail who was aliment that Webmail will be our solution to generating exposure to a target market audience. I explained to him that we are a young growing business and we had dealt with Webmail before and it financially crippled our business with no results in the past and was not interested. He informed me that Webmail had bad experiences of such nature in the past and that they have gone through a change of management and staffing structure and insisted on meeting with me. I accepted and made an appointment for him to meet with me.
In our meeting he apologized for the bad experience that I had with Webmail and assured me that I shall not be disappointed and said that if I had any issues or problems to contact him directly. He also said that he has many clients that have a success rate and have contacted him for repeat signups.
He said that their graphic design department would design a advertising image which would be used in their marketing campaign. I made it clear to Derek that our target is the corporate market and we don’t deal with home users. Derek said that it’s not a problem as they will then target the campaign to other several thousand other company owners and secretaries who are currently registered with Webmail as well as click through websites. Obviously he could not guarantee sales, but can guarantee a regular list of interested clients, and more so applicable to our company as our company is a one stop business solution company and that our products and services are so diverse.
With this, we agreed to sign a 7 month targeted banner with 120,000 monthly impressions totaling 840,000 impressions totaling R23 940.00.
Two days later, the graphic artist Kim Claasen forwarded me the artwork for approval, which was of such poor quality. I contacted Derek and expressed my concern and asked him if the graphic artist is professional as our junior artist designs better graphics. He apologised and got Kim to redo it. The second proof came through, which was not much better than the first proof. I got our in-house graphic artists to do the artwork for them and emailed it to Kim and Derek.
I was notified on the 24 November 2008 that the campaign was launched that day.
During the month of January, I contacted Derek and expressed concern that I have not received any stats nor contact from any prospective clients. He suggested that we “fine tune” the campaign and redefine the target.
On 01 Feb 2009, I received my first stats reflecting
Campaign code: 20026994 (Banner (Targetted))
Start /end dates: 2008-12-03 / 2009-07-03
Impressions: 21,428
________________________________________
Campaign code: 20026995 (Inbox Tab (Gauteng))
Start /end dates: 2008-11-03 / 2009-07-03
Impressions: 213,124
I tried contacting Derek and he was not available, I left a message to which he did not return my calls.
I contacted the Campaign Manager, Alana Mundell, and informed her that I was told that I would receive emails from interested companies, and surely from 213, 124 impressions I would have received at least one email. She said that they have sent me emails of interested clients, and she forwarded me an excel spreadsheet with five prospective clients:
Tuesday 02 December 2008 08:36:34
MailTo: sales@pstech.co.za
xsubject: Pro Solution Technologies – Webmail Response Form
name: webmail
surname: webmail
tel: 0116289700
email: webmail@webmail.co.za
comments: webmail
Submit: Submit
Friday 19 December 2008 10:46:51
MailTo: sales@pstech.co.za
xsubject: Pro Solution Technologies – Webmail Response Form
name: tando
surname: ngxiki
tel: 0729420297
email: TANDO1981@WEBMAIL.CO.ZA
comments: its a phone, life, office, the world at the palm of your hand. its worth having, honestly.
Submit: Submit
Wednesday 31 December 2008 12:56:19
MailTo: sales@pstech.co.za
xsubject: Pro Solution Technologies – Webmail Response Form
name: Edward
surname: Radingoana
tel: 0835909385
email: jkrinvest@webmail.co.za
comments: Quatation for creating a domain & website
Submit: Submit
Wednesday 28 January 2009 10:39:07
MailTo: sales@pstech.co.za
xsubject: Pro Solution Technologies – Webmail Response Form
name: Itumeleng Shai
surname: Shai
tel: 0799160271
email: tumi.shai@webmail.co.za
comments: Would like to know the cost of internet hosting for my website, I am a starting entreprenuer.
Submit: Submit
Wednesday 11 February 2009 09:25:06
MailTo: sales@pstech.co.za
xsubject: Pro Solution Technologies – Webmail Response Form
name: abie
surname: olivier
tel: 0834680876
email: abieolivier@webmail.co.za
comments: internet access
Submit: Submit
Contacting each of them, was evident that they have no idea as to what they wanted, nor had any clue. For example Shai was interested in a computer. Asking her what technical specs in terms of memory hard drive size etc, she did not know what I was talking about. She said maybe a 40Gb computer. I asked her for what is she using the computer for, she said for the internet.
Edward who wanted a website, told him about the development process and information and graphics that he will need to supply us in order for us to develop the site. Judging from the conversation he was not in any business as he could not tell me anything about his “company”
It was clear to me that the contacts are not from any campaign targeting a corporate environment.
Several emails to Derek and Alana expressing my concerns went unanswered. Thus I forwarded an email instructing Webmail to cancel the contract and I stopped further payments
On 05 May 2009 I received the following stats
Campaign code: 20026994 (Banner (Targetted))
Start /end dates: 2008-12-03 / 2009-07-03
Impressions: 51,954
________________________________________
Campaign code: 20026995 (Inbox Tab (Gauteng))
Start /end dates: 2008-11-03 / 2009-07-03
Impressions: 548,736
On the 15 May May 2009
Campaign code: 20026994 (Banner (Targetted))
Start /end dates: 2008-12-03 / 2009-07-03
Impressions: 56,606
________________________________________
Campaign code: 20026995 (Inbox Tab (Gauteng))
Start /end dates: 2008-11-03 / 2009-07-03
Impressions: 605,792
To which I received no emails from any prospective clients, nor any correspondence from Webmail
.
On the 06 April 2010, I received a call from Michelle Botha asking when they can expect further payments.
I told her of the history and informed her that there shall be no further payments and that should they want to take the matter further, we will take the matter to court
3:02 pm
Permalink
I signed a contract with webmail for a mailing package that I specifically requested to put on hold until I gave final approval. The following day I e-mailed to say that I would not be interested in undertaking the contract and that I did not wish for a service to be rendered. They did not render me a service of any kind. I sent them no art work, they posted no adverts of any nature whatsoever.
6 months later, at the expiry of the contract they sent me an invoice for R51300.
I told them I would not be paying it as no service was rendered. They now want to take me to court for the money.
What can I do to stop this totally unfair demand. Please help
Ricky
10:20 am
Permalink
Let them take you to court. I doubt they will. They threaten court action all the time but I’ve yet to hear of a case being actioned. If they do, represent yourself, present the facts and there is no way you can lose. Keep us posted because I swear I will show up in court as a co-plaintive or whatever they call it. In fact, I think this entire forum would show up and tell the court how Webmail screwed us all. I would love to have a moment to present my case. The press doesn’t give a damn, the Direct Marketing Association doesn’t care, the DTI doesn’t care……
10:55 am
Permalink
@Ricky: I have been taken to court because of comments on my blog, and it isn’t much fun. BUT you can win, without ever appearing in court.
1) WAIT for them to file the court papers. They won’t, but that’s the first step. As soon as that happens, then its on the public record and the press have something they can quote without being sued.
2) Send a copy of the court papers to Noseweek, along with your email and other proof. Remember the onus is on Webmail to prove that they are entitled to the money. When Noseweek starts asking them and their lawyers for comment, they are screwed and will probably drop the case.
3) Consult a lawyer if you have to, but it is much better to do it yourself, *IF* you have the time and can stand the stress.
Lawsuits are like playing chess by postcard. There are exciting moments an a LOT of waiting while nothing happens. That’s the tough part.
11:25 am
Permalink
I’m with Jason. Also the damn justice (ahem – another topic?) system grinds so slowly that hiring a lawyer becomes incredibly expensive. This is EXACTLY what Webmail counts on. Also, the new consumer protection act has come into force and Webmail is in breach of this legislation that they’ll end up being a case study for future law students! I swear I will show up if you end up in court and will happily be a corroborating victim and testify.
5:29 pm
Permalink
These people phoned me too, and sad to say what a waste of time, from the moment I walked into the company in Centurion, I sensed some secrecy about the way things are done, being accompanied by my business partner he was eager to sign away immediately, but before he could say that much, I interuptted the flow by mentioning a 3 nonexistent partner is the one that is the major shareholder and that the 2 of us collectively could not take any stance on his sale. He seemed rather determined to get us to sign instead, I again insisted we are only going to go back to the office to inform the man incharge … what i suspected was in actual fact correct about this crowd … they called my partner again and again and again to get him to sign … whom after the meeting i explained why i rejected the sale and understood .. considering my 10 yrs experience in the internet industry and also with SEO …while talking to my partner i chose to sit quietly and act as though i dont know what he was talking about … and he got to relaxed and wrapped up in his lies and empty promises … and i was sitting there having a field day punching holes in the gag … as a reader/responder/commentator mentioned above they are too lazy to do simple research … or perhaps google is blocked on the domain … “If we catch anyone using Google you will be fired … ” LOL
these guys are honestly a sad case study for what not to do
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